2015 PMF Open Thread

2015 PMF Open Thread

The 2014-15 Presidential Management Fellowship (PMF) application season is almost here. The basics can be found at pmf.gov and some key information is:

In addition to OPM’s official PMF resources, here on Pathtopmf.com you’ll find a range of additional insights on the PMF Program. For instance:

And use this open thread as a resource for the 2014-15 process and a place to:

  • Ask questions
  • Share your experience
  • Or maybe just to vent 🙂

Good luck and let us know how we can help you submit a strong application!

This post was written by
  • Klonza

    I will be completing my PhD before the August 31st deadline, but my transcript does not contain a completion date (obviously). The instructions say to obtain a letter from the “appropriate school official.” Would that be my PI? Or head of my PhD program? Anyone else in this situation? Best of luck to all!

    • ESDudley

      Someone from my career services office just wrote a letter with the relevant information.

    • Dane

      I had the same question, and my Registar’s Office handled it. Talk to your Registar’s Office, Career Development Office, or whatever the equivalent is at your school, and someone will, at least, send you in the right direction.

      • daniel

        @dane (posted earlier without seeing this thread)

        I’m wondering if you know whether it has to be from the registrars office? I had my department chair put a letter in as the unofficial transcript has my picture but no name (it’s really weird, but it is what it is).

        So the letter my department chair wrote stated that the transcript was mine with all of the pertinent information.

        What do you think?

        • Dane

          I don’t think it needs to be one office or another. The way I understood it was that if your unofficial transcript did not have all the required elements, it could be supplemented by a letter from your school that had those elements and the unofficial transcript.

          I think you’ll be fine. If you make it through the first round and like your interview, they’re not going to be upset because the letter was written by one person or another.

  • PMFHopeful

    What degree description are other Master of Public Policy candidates/holders choosing? I’m seeing MPA, MPH, Master of Policy Analysis, Master of Government, but not MPP. Should we put other or choose a related one? Is there any strategy involved here?

  • FemEmpl

    Does anyone know if you are less likely to be selected if the review committee sees you are going back to school? I have met the graduate requirements by completing my MPA this past spring. However, I returned to school this fall for a Doctor of Management degree. It is a program for working adults, so I am and could still be working. Just didn’t want to disqualify myself if their is a stipulation for such a scenario.

    • JVA

      No it will not negatively affect you, assuming that you sell it as a point of accomplishment and not one that they should screen you out with. Make sure you mentioned and reference that you are working full-time still.

  • Applicant

    I know we are required to upload a resume as part of the initial application process, but does anyone know whether resumes are factored in during the selection process, or are they only used once finalists are selected and are applying to positions?

    • FedEmpl

      Yes the resume is for the selection. If/when you become a finalist, you individually apply for PMF positions and will submit a new and tailored resume for each of these.

    • Leah

      It’s used during the in-person assessment and has no weight on the first round.

  • Kelly

    Hi, I have a rather unique question. I have taken 3 years to complete my masters’ degree, as I had a child while enrolled in school. Should I address this in any way? Thank you!

    • JVA

      No, it is not relevant and it is very common.

  • Logan W

    Good morning. A quick question that I cannot find the answer to: If the resumes are used in the first step of the application process (to select Semi-Finalists), is the process automated like it is for usajobs?

    • Logan W

      I only ask because that is the most annoying thing about that process and I am hoping I don’t need to alter my resume to include keywords or key phrases in an attempt to trick a computer into choosing my application for the next phase.

      • Dane

        This is a good question, and I wondered this myself, but my resume is filled with buzzwords. Public service, organization, leadership, government, administration, communication, analysis, policy, relations, management, technology–just pepper those things in there.

    • Leah

      Resumes are not used until the in-person process. It has no weight on being chosen as a semi-finalist.

  • http://www.govloop.com Steve

    2 days left to apply. Who has applied? Who is about to? Questions?

  • PMK

    I applied and now waiting. Do you find out about semi-finalist status in November?

    • JVA

      Yes, mid November you will find out who made the semi-finalist cut.

      • PMK

        thanks for the response!

  • Daniel

    I’m in a PhD program that I’m preparing to transition out of–i.e., leave having attained the incidental master’s degree without completing the doctorate. The master’s was awarded last month and is reflected on my transcript, but of course it also indicates that I’m pursuing a PhD which has no expected completion date listed. Will the master’s satisfy the requirement that the transcript list the “Date of degree conferred for recent graduates or anticipated for current students “), or should I get a letter clarifying the situation from career services?

    • JVA

      Yes, getting a Masters will satisfy the requirement. Any graduate degree does the trick.

  • ESDudley

    Just submitted my application (for the second time)! Good luck everyone who is applying.

  • Dane

    I finished applying last night. As I went through the situational videos and Stongly Agree–Strongly Disagree rated questions, I never felt like the provided answers encapsulated what I’d do.

    Plus, I’m finishing up my JD right now. Everytime I thought, “I strongly agree with that!” I would immediately think of a dozen counter-examples. For the last three years I’ve been thinking of what-ifs, and this test doesn’t really allow for too much of that. So I only answered that I felt very strongly a handful of times–which, I’ve heard, isn’t ideal.

    And the situational videos were worse. Say, hypothetically, there was a video about what you should do if you find a coworker on an online gambling site. Honestly, I’d probably make a joke about losing your ass and your job, and then ask them politely to get back to work.

    Anyone else frustrated with the test, want to complain about anything else, or have any funny cat photos?

    • sandy

      I like your approach!

    • Leah

      “Maybe I’m just not cut out for the work” is exactly what they’re trying to get people to see. I am in my fourth month as a PMF and those videos couldn’t be any more realistic.

      • Dane

        I don’t think it’s realistic that there are only four responses to any situation or individual.

        • Don E.

          Of course it’s not realistic. But the alternative would be open-ended answers that are far more difficult to score. And *that* isn’t realistic considering 7000 applicants in 2013, and 12000 in 2012. (It’s also why you don’t just get 1 or 2 scenario questions, but 10X that number… it’s the aggregate of best-fit responses that matter, not any individual one.)

          • Dane

            I understand that, Don. My response was to Leah, when she said that I may not be cut out of the work. The work itself will *not* be limited to four responses. But thank you for your insight.

      • PMK

        Please share what you do as a PMF and how you feel that application and subsequent interview was a good indicator of what lie ahead.

    • randomname

      current JD pmf here dude are you mentally prepared to see all of your friends on facebook talking about representing clients going to court conducting depositions while you push paper all day? strongly reccommend second guessing PMF for an attorney wish I would have. You’ve got a chance to be an attorney your giving it up to be an HR monkey.

  • sandy

    Did anyone else notice that two of the situational videos regarding gossiping employees were always women? It rubbed me the wrong way and seemed sexist

    • Dane

      Did you notice that all the lazy men were all honkies?

      Racist, too.

    • Don E.

      In a number of the scenarios, the male character was the problem and the manager, supervisor, or trainer was a female. So I don’t think the sexist claim really gets very far. I can see why you might feel that way looking at just those two scenarios you mentioned, but in light of the whole set, that criticism seems possibly a little hyper-critical.
      In fact, looking at the situational videos as a whole, I noticed quite a bit of gender, racial, and ADA diversity.

  • Dane

    Anyone else notice how much more lively these forums were for last year’s PMF applicants?

    Think it’s an indicator of the number of applicants this year, or has Path to PMF been usurped by another guidesite?

    • Dane

      Oh, and I didn’t get that job.

    • cha

      I actually said the same thing to my father after completing the application. I felt that they were exactly the same!

  • PMK

    Anyone else hate waiting??? I wonder how many applications were submitted.

    • Steve

      around 8-12k in past years

  • Tamika

    I really want this soooo bad. Just nervous about the assessment. Praying that I make it. Good luck to everyone.

  • CJ

    @Tamika – I hear you. This seems like such a wonderful opportunity. The knowledge that everything rides on the online assessment makes this waiting to hear about semifinalist status quite nerve-racking. Best of luck to all.

  • sandy

    excited to find out either way! does anyone know when we will find out if we made it to the second round?

    • FedEmpl

      You will likely find out the last week of November, prior to Thanksgiving.

      • sandy

        Thanks!

  • daniel

    my transcript didn’t have my name on it (unofficial one, it’s weird that it didn’t, but in any case, it didn’t).

    one question: i had my department chair put a letter in rather than the registrar/graduate division. the letter is on official letterhead and is signed, printed name, and position. does anyone know if that’s going to cause problems?

    i know its too late but want to know if anyone has gotten dinged/feedback that it wasn’t sufficient.

    • AnonApplicant

      I also wound up having my dept. head write a letter. My registrar would only write a letter if I had already applied to graduate, but I won’t be defending my PhD until the summer so obviously I’m not technically graduating in May. Not sure how everyone else got around this!

      • daniel

        yea, similar type of situation, they made it seem so formal and technical of a process.

    • Dane

      I do think you’ll be fine. I don’t remember reading that it had to specifically be the registar’s office.

      • daniel

        thanks!

  • sandy

    Does anyone know the average age of an incoming PMF? I’m a thirty something and wondering if most folks are in their twenties? Had me lots of life experiences before applying to grad school.

    • Miguel

      I’m 34. I don’t recall seeing any data on the mean age of applicants. Best of luck to you in the application process. Let’s hope our life experience contributes to our success in being selected as fellows!

      • sandy

        Thanks for the great words, Miguel! Good luck to you, too.

  • FedEmpl

    What percent of those who apply usually get to the second round?

    • pols

      In the online information session, they said that 609 out of about 7000 applicants were selected as finalists, and 300 of those people found placements

      • FedEmpl

        Thanks pols!

    • Jim Johnson

      Those numbers are correct for last year. But there is no certain percentage to answer your question. My class (2013) went from 12,120 applicants to 1,694 semi-finalists to 663 finalists, with a little over half getting appointments. Good luck!

      • FedEmpl

        Thanks Jim!

  • Candidate

    Has anyone heard back yet?

    • Jen P.

      Nope. The announcement says 4-6 weeks after October 15th. So could be 2 weeks more. I’m wondering if there are less applicants this year. There is almost no discussion about the mpg application online for 2015.

      • Jen P.

        PMF not mpg….autocorrect

      • Dane

        I wondered the same thing. I thought that I had commented something to that effect, but I don’t see it now.

        If so, lucky us!

    • FedEmpl

      No one will likely hear anything until the 6th week, right before Thanksgiving.

  • Catie

    If you are on the listserv do they email once semi-finalists are posted? Do they email you directly if you are selected?

    • FedEmpl

      Catie, it appears that you will get an email notifying you directly if you are selected. “The dates for the 2015 In-Person Assessments will take place
      December 8, 2014, through January 30, 2015. Semi-Finalists will be
      sent a personal invitation to schedule their In-Person Assessment
      shortly after Semi-Finalists are announced.”

      • Ben

        Do you think the semi-finalists will be informed this week?

        • FedEmpl

          From what I have gathered, we will likely hear something next week. But there is a small chance it could be this week. I’m guessing next Tuesday or Wednesday.

          • Catie

            OK thanks all! It’s so torturous knowing that it could be any minute now! Fingers crossed

    • Jim Johnson

      You get an email stating that the semi finalist list has been posted. Then there will be an email sent directly to you for registering for your assessment. Good Luck!

  • PMK

    When going through different pages on the PMF.gov website many have been updated recently (except the semifinalist page). I think they will be posting that info soon. Good luck!

  • Jim Johnson

    I just began my second year as a PMF and I keep checking the list in hopes of seeing that my wife will make it as a semi-finalist. What I find incredibly sad is the timing this all. My in person assessment was the last week of January and that was in the middle of the available assessment dates. This is really early for the assessments. Being that the first day is December 8th, I think it’s crazy they still haven’t announced it. People need time to schedule flights to and from DC. We’re lucky enough to already be here if my wife is selected, but it’s unfortunate for people who really have to travel. Last year, a semi-finalist flew in from Japan. Imagine having to buy that ticket on short notice! Next Wednesday will be the 6th week, but I can’t imagine they will wait until then………doesn’t seem like the day before Thanksgiving would be suitable.

    • FedEmpl

      Hi Jim. On what date for your year did you find out?

      • Jim Johnson

        My process was actually a funny story. I didn’t know what the PMF program was and was really just applying for a job. What stuck out was the part about being a recent grad. I applied and then I got an email saying I was semi-finalist. I didn’t know what they even meant by that and then began my research. I then learned what the PMF program was all about and the only guidance I had was forum like this, or maybe even on this site. I’m not sure of the date I was notified of being a semi-finalist, but I was notified of my finalist status on April 8, 2013. I began my appointment in October of 2014.

    • PMK

      Hi Jim,
      Please share how you like your experience. Also, did you start as a GS 9, 10, 11?
      Thanks!

      • Jim Johnson

        I am loving my experience and can still say after 1 year and 1 month that I am still excited to come to work everyday. I started as a GS 9 and just got promoted to a GS 11.

        • FedEmpl

          Jim, do you mind sharing what Department/Agency you currently work for? And what your experience was like going through round 2, for those of us who end up being selected. Thanks for sharing by the way!

          • Jim Johnson

            I work for the Dept. of Labor/OSHA at the national office in DC. My experience was…… difficult to describe. I felt nervous and a bit intimidated because I went to a small HBCU and when I got there I met people who were lawyers and went to huge schools with big reputations. There were people who had experience in the federal government and that was a bit intimidating. Then I remember that the woman who was in directing everything that day said that the assessors didn’t have any access to your personal info or school info and that we were only being graded on what we did on that day. Once I heard that, the nervousness went away for me. It’s important to remember that you are supposed to be a leader, but not a dictator. It’s important to be confident, but not arrogant.

          • FedEmpl

            Thanks Jim! Hope there is good news for you discuss with your wife tonight!

          • Jim Johnson

            There is! She made it. You have to log into your personal account and it will tell you. Good luck!

          • Victoria

            Congrats to your wife Jim!

          • Jim Johnson

            Thanks. I told 3 of my undergrad friends about it and all three of them made it. Also a co worker here at DOL made it.

  • Jim Johnson

    Check the website. It says the Semi-finalists have been selected! I can’t find out where on the site the list is though! Anybody else having any luck?

    • Victoria

      Hi Jim….the list will be listed here: http://www.pmf.gov/become-a-pmf/current-semi-finalists.aspx

      This update is pretty awesome!:

      As of November 19, 2014, the PMF Program Office has selected Semi-Finalists for the PMF Class of 2015. Out of approximately 7,800 applicants, 1,015 were selected as Semi-Finalists (which includes 147 as PMF STEM Semi-Finalists). This year’s applicant pool represented over 300 colleges and universities.

      • FedEmpl

        It says in the post that applicants were encouraged to log into the system to check their status. I logged in, but it still shows the same status as it did before. That the announcement is closed and my submission was successful. Anyone else check to see if there status changed?

        • Victoria

          I checked..which took forever…nothing has changed nor have I gotten an email. I’m refreshing pages like crazy!

          • FedEmpl

            Welp, way to rile us up! Hahaha. I guess it makes sense to post the update a short time before activating notices.

          • R

            I also checked. Nothing new and no email. Still just says “Application received.” AHHHHHHH torture.

          • F

            Same :(((

          • AGS

            Still nothing on my end. Any one else got the email?

          • FedEmpl

            Just got my results. Didn’t make it. Congrats for all of you that did!

          • Sandra

            What is your last name

      • AGS

        Does anyone’s status show anything new? I logged in and don’t see a change. Did anyone receive an email?

        • Sandra

          Yes, I received 2 emails.

  • Gretchen K.

    Does anyone know how to get help from the “helpdesk”? I’ve been locked out of my account and emailed the suggested account at ppm.gov, but I received an auto-reply telling me the application period is over. I just want to check my account!

    • FedEmpl

      I did the same thing. They will respond shortly after the auto email giving you the new code to log back in.

      • Gretchen K.

        Thanks! I got the email. I was just worried they would be bogged down with people trying to get in the system right now. All is well.

        • FedEmpl

          Get any news one way or the other when you logged in?

          • Gretchen K.

            No, still haven’t heard anything. I’m hoping it is updated soon though!

          • Gretchen K.

            Didn’t make it. Oh well.

  • stem

    Status was updated for me when logged in. Made semi-finalist.

    • FedEmpl

      Congrats! I assume by your handle that you are in the stem track? Only 147 of you, nice job!

  • Victoria

    I made it! YAAAAAAYYYYY

    • FedEmpl

      🙂 Congrats! Did you get your email too. Were you stem or regular track?

      • Victoria

        Thanks. No email and regular track. MHA degree

  • Laura

    Didn’t make the cut. *sigh* Even with an Ivy League degree, a law degree, a masters, internships at HHS and FDA, and a health reform publication under my belt…so yeah. Got an analyst government interview this week, but no guarantees. I’ll get over this I hope. I really, really needed this fellowship :/ Congrats to all y’all supergeniuses out there who made it though <: )

    • kgordish

      I was a congressional employee for ten years, possess extensive knowledge of government, and will have a PhD in physiology. Not selected. Don’t feel bad. A computer algorithm probably triaged most of the applicants. Logistically, it would require reviewing one person to review 260 resumes and 780 essays a day for a month straight.

      • PMK

        I didn’t make it either and have similar background. I’m curious if being a current Pathways intern hurt. Maybe they figured since “I’m in the system” it was easy to throw out. Would be nice to know what went into the selection but I know that is not revealed. Congrats to everyone that made it thought. Especially the two students from Benedictine!

        • Ash

          PMK Thanks! I was one of the Benedictine students!

          • PMK

            Happy you made it! Wish I would have seen more of us on the list.

        • BoydC

          You assume being a flunkie staff member in Congress is impressive. It’s not.

  • Tamika

    I made it!!!! Congrats and good luck to everyone. We still have a long road ahead

  • Li

    I made it! So happy!

  • primrosehill

    Congrats to all SF’s. Glad to be in such good company!

  • Steve Ressler

    Hey all –

    Quick note:

    -Congrats to the semi-finalist – make sure to re-read the guide as we have tips on next stage in process (some of which is highlighted here – http://pathtopmf.com/pmf-in-person-assessment/)

    -If you don’t make it, don’t worry. Says nothing about you and odds are super low. But there are tons of other ways to get into public service. Check out our guides:

    -Navigating USAJOBS for High Achievers

    -Guide to International Jobs

    You can find both here – http://pathtopmf.com/pmf-guide/

  • stem2

    Made it!!!

  • chance2

    Made it as a semi- finalist! This is my second time applying and making it this far. But I am definitely disappointed in the fact that the only location to interview is going to be DC. Last time I was able to do it in my city since it was one of the meeting options, with minimal time off work. Now this is going to be a significant expense and time off work. Wonder why they changed it??

  • Dan

    I’m wondering if anyone has any resources for the type of behavioral assessment PMF uses for their online portion of the application? This is my second time not advancing and I would like some more resources on how to approach their questions.

    • Victoria

      Hi Dan. The fact that you are requesting further assistance illustrates your positive attitude. I wish you well on your next attempt.

      Prior to seeking information about the assessment, have you concluded that you followed the application directions to the ‘T’?

      1. Did you submit a transcript with the following items: name, college/university, degree program, and date of degree conferred or anticipated?

      If an item was missing, did you upload a letter from your school; on letterhead?

      2. Did you save all of your files as ‘first name_last name_file name’?

      3. Did your resume include the following information; name, contact information, college name, and degree program?

      4. Were the lengths of your essays close to the maximum requirement?

      Per the online-assessment, I felt the questions were geared towards acknowledging the government’s organizational behavior; which is illustrated through the core competencies of the PMF program. The competencies are provided here: http://www.pmf.gov/media/89988/2015_pmf_assess_prep_guide_09-18-14.pdf

      Here are two other helpful links: http://www.govloop.com/pmf-assessment-prep-guide-top-tips-from-the-official-source/

      http://careermatters.federaltimes.com/2013/06/10/how-to-become-a-presidential-management-fellow/

      For me personally, the situation judgment assessment questions were a bit tricky. I am a ‘what if’ thinker, so I felt as if at least one question could have two answers or an answer which was not offered. I reviewed about 90 percent of the videos at least twice.

      Pertaining to Part 2 – Questionnaire, I would suggest that you answer the questions with your past experiences (school work, job, and interactions with others) in mind. Although the questionnaire is about oneself, I believe the agree/disagree answers ought to relate to how one would collaborate with others.

      One thing I learned about the government sector is that it is filled with bright and knowledgeable people. A person’s character and willingness to serve is what sets them apart. Think about it. Who really wants to work with or for an arrogant self-absorb person? Yes, it happens, but who wants to do it? I hope this helps. Good luck.

  • Ash

    I made it through as a semi-finalist! I know many of the positions are located in DC, just curious is anyone knows if there are any positions in Chicago?

    • Jim Johnson

      This can change from year to year. Yes, the majority of the positions are in DC. But there at appointments from coast to coast, just depending on the needs of the departments and agencies. It is important that you connect with current or past PMFs, and other semi finalists through all channels like FB groups, LinkedIn, etc. They can tell you about their experiences in their current offices and maybe offer some advice. For example, my sister in law is working in a regional Social Security Office. This office rarely has PMFs and her start has been somewhat rocky. Most agencies in DC have plenty of experience with PMFs and they have a PMF culture which makes it easier for your fellowship. But then again, there are people who work in regional or area offices who have great PMF experiences and PMFs who work in DC and have terrible PMF experiences. It is important that you do your research with your prospective agency and even reach out to some of their PMFs. Good Luck!

  • Jim Johnson

    Congrats to all who made it. The next step is going to be harder. But just like countless others before you, you can make it. Prepare, prepare, prepare. As you schedule your assessment date and time, make sure you consider what may work best for you. Some people like the morning and want to get it over with. Others like me are not really morning people and prefer an afternoon session.

  • Jim Johnson

    Ok, my wife was chosen as a Semi-Finalist, is on the list, and got an invite to the coffee chat. But she hasn’t received an email for scheduling her assessment. How about the rest of you? Are you all scheduling your assessments or have you not gotten the email too? One of the other semi-finalist told me he already scheduled his appointment, but we haven’t gotten an email invite. I don’t see anything once she logs in either…….

    • David

      I’m still waiting for the scheduling invitation. Nothing so far.

      • Jim Johnson

        Thanks, wanted to make sure we didn’t miss anything.

    • Ash

      Congrats to your wife. Same here, I received a coffee chat invite, but no scheduling invite. Question, when you say prepare, prepare, prepare could you be more specific as to what to prepare for?

      • Jim Johnson

        Sure. Brush up on your writing skills and interviewing skills. That’s two parts of the In person assessment. Practice writing and practice your grammar. In a world where we use shorthand or slang during our interaction through social media, it is important that you brush up on correct grammar.

    • Bu Mei

      Jim, I think your friend/other sf is lying to you. No one has received a scheduling email as of yet.

      • Jim Johnson

        Actually had more than one person tell me that they already received their invites and had already registered. Either way, my wife got hers this morning. Registered!

  • S.Carter

    Hey guys, any clue how many of us typically go through to the finalist stage? I would need to fly back for the in-person assessment so I’m trying to figure out whether it’s worth continuing.

    • Ghis

      1015 made it out of about 7800 initial applications.

      • S.Carter

        I’m curious how many make it past this next stage. Any idea?

        • Jim Johnson

          There is no absolute way to know. My class started with 12120 and ended up with 663 finalists. There is no percentage or surefire way to calculate it.

  • Victoria

    Semi-Finalists, check your emails for the in-person assessment registration link.

  • PMK

    Curious. Is anyone on here a current Pathways Intern or current Federal employee. Did you make it to the semi-finalist round?

    • Tamika

      I’m a current term federal employee ( not to exceed 4 years) semi finalist

      • PMK

        Thanks for replying? Are you already a GS-9?

        • Tamika

          Yep

    • Miles Benedict Dyson

      Currently Federal employee and SF

  • RR

    Can anyone elaborate on the in person assessment? Specifically, what kinds of activities or questions are you presented with in the group and individual phases, as well as, what does the written exercise consist of? I’m also interested in whether the STEM vs conventional PMF assessment is the same? I’ve noticed of the roughly 1000 semi-finalists, only ~150 are STEM track.

    • RR

      Jim Johnson – Any thoughts? It seems you are the one with the experience here.

      • randomname

        Hi I am a 2014 PMF so from last year all I can really say is be prepared for STAR (situation, task, action, result) in the interview. They make you sign a non disclosure agreement about the in person assesment when you are there so don’t feel super comfortable talking about the group exercise. There will be a current PMF there to calm you down just go with the flow the group exercise and the job fair were both total clusters last year. Especially the job fair.

    • https://www.youtube.com/user/tootinytotickle Kingteeuhh

      are you able to share any insight?

  • SF

    What can I expect at the in person assessment? Will each SF have to give a presentation? I am anxious to know what goes on.

  • JohnSnow

    I was selected as a semi-finalist. I just accepted a position as a clerk for a state supreme court justice. Does anyone know if it’s possible to defer acceptance if I make it as a finalist? I don’t think you can, but is it possible to find a PMF position that starts the following year, when my clerkship would be up? (clerkship will end August 2016).

    • Victoria

      You can not defer your acceptance, but if you play your cards right you could get both positions.

      All finalists must obtain a position within a year of the finalist-announcement. Results will definitely come out prior to August 2015.

      So you could get a PMF position and ask your potential supervisor if you could begin your actual work in August; which most do anyway since you have to go through clearance checks and an on-boarding session.

      • GAU

        They aren’t going to hold a position presumably six months, or more considering there are limited postings in the last several months of eligibility. The watcher on the wall will have to pick.

        • GAU

          I forgot to mention that you have to START a position within a year from the date finalists are announced, to include background checks and on-boarding. It is just not possible for the OP to wait.

    • randomname

      Wouldn’t worry about it. If you want to be a lawyer go with the clerkship. I know plenty of JD PMFs such as myself with regrets. Once you step away from the legal path its hard to jump back in. I don’t see a lot of legal exit options for PMFs. State high court clerkship can take you far. Trust me it kind of sucks studying for the bar waiting then seeing that you passed getting your bar card in the mail and realizing it doesn’t even matter because your a PMF. If you want to represent clients, if you want to be an advocate, if you ever want to make a lot of money or even have a shot at making big money go with clerkship. state high court could lead to biglaw or a fed clerk then biglaw you haven’t lost the biglaw game yet don’t give up.

    • Jim Johnson

      Last year’s finalists were announced during the first week (or beginning of the second week) of April this year. Their year will end in April of 2015 and the next finalist class will be names……….from your semi-finalist group. You will have one year to secure a position or forfeit the opportunity, meaning just until April 2016………….decisions, decisions……

  • PMFSTEM

    I am one of the PMF STEM Semi-Finalists. I have been looking up information about the in-person interviews and how they differ from PMF vs. PMF STEM. Does anyone have any information regarding the “technical competency” portion of the PMF STEM interview? Or any other advice for the PMF STEM interview process in general? Thanks!! Much appreciated!

    • https://www.youtube.com/user/tootinytotickle Kingteeuhh

      I am looking for this as well in preparation for the 2016-17 application. Any insight you can share?

  • BoydC

    What a joke the whole PMF system is. Alot of people are sold a bunch of BS that you “need” to go to an “elite” school like SIPA, Fletcher, SAIS, etc. In reality, two of the top 10 feeder schools are online diploma mills.

    And the agencies that are doing any significant hiring are the toilet agencies. The ones that have a poor reputation within the government (you can imagine their reputation outside of it) like DHS.

    • Kris Reinertson

      Thanks for the comment regarding the schools that finalists attended.
      There are plenty of people who are not attending ivy league school for a
      financial decision or because they have matured since undergrad. It is
      good to know that their rubric extends beyond the prestige of the
      candidate’s school.

      After looking at the placements of 2014
      fellows, I do have to disagree with you about the reputations of
      agencies that are hiring. DHHS, HUD, State Dept, Dept of Agriculture,
      Treasury Dept, USAID and a few others all seem to have hired substantial
      numbers of PMF. Also, it looks like about 75% of fellows found
      placement.

      • Jeff

        Where did you find the placement statistics for 2014? I’ve checked the agency totals page on the PMF website, but those pages don’t appear to have been populated yet. Thanks for your help!

      • Jeff

        Oh never mind. I didn’t realize you had to hit “apply” to get the list to generate.

    • randomname

      you have to remember veterans preference applies to PMF. So vets from diploma mills are going to make finalist and get appointed. On paper the law requires a vet from Univ of Pheonix to be treated equally as an Ivy. But often times presige whore agencies like OMB and State break the law by failing to advertise opening on TAS and only calling Ivys. i.e. see generally no one from OMB appointed last year non-ivy also no vets. I thought about suing them but I got appointed anyway. Strongly discourage scared lawyers with loan debt from doing pmf. you’re scared now but you’ll regret giving up the opportunity to ever be a lawyer. So crazy a year ago I was as enthusiastic as all of you now I want out asap.

      • Pmfer

        Do you think a vet that went to Uop with 15 years of work experience in a particular field is less worthy of being a PMF? Just wondering. I have worked with some top Ivy league graduates that were not the best employees. I think you should definitely leave the program with that mentality. Seems like you are more concerned with where a person obtains a degree than anything else. If you want out……..just leave. No one is forcing you to stay.

        • randomname

          Not less worthy just not what the program is designed for. Searching for new jobs on a daily basis boss its only a matter of time.

          • Pmfer

            The program was designed to get the best candidates. I guess you think the best candidates are non-veterans attending certain schools. I didn’t attend an Ivy League score nor am I a veteran. Just didn’t agree with you belittling others. Some people have to choose another route ( online schools) for different reasons. I think it’s great that they look beyond the school someone attends. Hopefully you find something better. Maybe you are in the wrong agency. I know a few JD grads that went to FOIA and they love it…….but they didn’t pass the bar.

  • RichieR

    BoydC
    Going to a top school earning top grades makes you a good student. This does not translate to a great manager or leader. Some people have to work (sometimes 2) out of high school. Others join the military, which can make attending college challenging. They go to online school while supporting their families working a full tank time job. I think your comment was insulting and unnecessary. There’s no information out there discussing an “elite school” requirement. I would be sad for someone like you to be selected. I couldn’t imagine you hiring anyone with a “diploma mill degree” regardless of quality or quantity of work experience. I have several veteran friends with online degrees. They are smart and great leaders.

    I used to think the same way when things didn’t go my way. I used to look down on certain people based on the path they had to take. I have grown to learn that not getting what you want is sometimes the best gift. No need to steal anyone’s shine. Let everyone have their moment. Who knows, this could be some semi- finalist second application in the program.

  • RichieR

    Sorry for typos… Using cell phone to type

  • hopeful2015

    At the coffee-chat they said that they will announce finalists 2-4 weeks after Jan 30th, but during the interviews they said by April 1st. I’m really hoping they will announce within this month (although I know last year they didn’t announce finalists until April). Sadly I’m not very confident about my interview but I am hopeful…….

    • Victoria

      Interviews within our cycle ended in Jan.; unlike the last cycle which ended in Feb. So I’m thinking March at the latest.

      • hopeful2015

        I sure hope so!

  • Chochi

    I did so awful at the in person assessment. And I mean truly bombed it. Everyone keeps telling me to wait and see, but in my heart, I know otherwise. It maKes me sad because after this year, I won’t be able to participate Again. Ah well.

    • Tamika

      You probably didn’t do as bad as you think

  • Ad

    Anybody else not get a copy of their written assessment sent to them by email?

    • Ladi

      What do you mean? I dont know anything about that?

    • David

      No idea what you are talking about. we were supposed to get something?

      • Jeff

        As far as I know, we weren’t provided with a copy of the written assessment.

    • Adam

      During our session they said a copy would be forwarded to our emails. However, that must just have been bad information that was passed to our group. Thanks for clearing this up with your responses!

      • Jeff

        No problem, best of luck!

  • April

    At my in-person assessment we were told that finalists would be notified after April 10th to give the 2014 finalists a full year to find an appointment without new competition.

    • David

      I wonder if they are planning to also give the class of 2015 a year of no competition.

      On the PMF site they say that 2015 results will come out in “Spring” and 2016 results will come out 4-6 weeks after assessments finish. Unless they change the assessment dates, there’s no way we will get the same opportunity to have no competition.

      • GAU

        A matter of weeks doesn’t make any difference, as new job postings will disappear by January or February because agencies won’t have time to interview and on-board before the deadline. Your competition is with the hundreds of other finalists, not the next class.

    • Jeff

      I recently confirmed with the PMF office that “before April 1st” is the closest they can come at this point to an announcement date. I’m *guessing* they’re just giving themselves space and will probably announce between now and then.

    • KH

      I believe I read the job fair is planned for end of April sometime, but I’m not sure. Either way, I hope they give the finalists enough time to schedule flights, etc. Waiting is killing me!

    • hopeful2015

      They told us by April 1st! It’s just crazy how they make us wait for so long

  • stemf

    after april 10? woah..no wonder people have trouble finding positions, they get notified really late so by the time they start looking for pmf…it’s kind of too late into the year. idk i would def prefer to know asap. doesn’t help to wait that long to find out.

  • Chris

    I also confirmed with the PMF office and was told that results will come out “before April 1st”.

  • Joe

    Has anyone heard anything about when they may announce finalists? I’ve heard they are running about five weeks earlier than previous years, which looking at when they made the announcement last year would be around this Wednesday.I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything more concrete?

    • looking for info

      I have not heard anything from the PMF program, but I did receive some information from a contact at NIH that said an internal email went out alerting NIH employees to a PMF job fair on April 14 & 15 in DC.

  • pmfs

    Hi, does anyone know if the job fair in April is the Virtual Job Fair (online??) or is there an actual in-person Job Fair in DC?

    • AMR

      Seems from info I’ve gathered (who knows how reliable it is) it’s an in-person fair? Although if it’s the 14-15, hopefully results are coming soon?!?! So anxious!!

  • Chris

    Does anyone know when we should be hearing back? It sounded like it could be anytime between February and May.

    • hopeful2015

      They said by April 1st. I don’t know why it takes them so long to announce but I’m anxiously waiting!

      • AMR

        2014 PMF job fair was 4/28 and results came out 4/10. If looking for info is right & job fair is 4/14 – 4/15, and we’re looking at the same time frame, then results should be released ~3/27?

        • CTpmf

          Haven’t the job fairs all been only one day in the past? If this year it’s a two day fair, it might mean they either are accepting more people or there are more opportunities? Either way I’ve been checking my email obsessively for the last few weeks!

          • GAU

            As someone who attended the job fair last year, my guess it if it really is two days it is in hopes to split the crowd. The job fair was a horrendous experience with hundreds of people jammed into what was essentially the floor of an office building. You could hardly move.

          • CTpmf

            Okay that would make sense as well. Did you apply again or are you a current PMF?

          • GAU

            I did obtain a position about midway through my eligibility year. The problem with a two-day job fair is everybody is going to go on the first day anyway because they think all the jobs will be gone. Don’t sweat it; just like any job fair, they tell to you apply online anyway. I am sure some people did get a job from the job fair, but I am sure it it the exception rather than the norm.

        • Ebele

          How did you all learn about the date of the job fair?

          • AMR

            I don’t know the date – I’m just working from something a previous poster wrote.

        • hopeful2015

          I think giving people 2 weeks to plan to attend the job fair is very unfair for those who live far and have to fly in to DC

  • Briar Dunn

    So glad I made the semi-finalist round back in January! I am so ready for them to post the PMF Finalist! I heard there was a good chance that many who showed up in DC this year will get a nomination, due to the Federal need this year! But, who knows 🙂 Good luck everybody!

    • pmfs

      I sure hope so! I feel like I messed up the in-person assessment :/. I was so tired and hungry by the time the writing portion came up…Could have done soooo much better! grrr

      • CTpmf

        I feel the same way. I think I really bombed the behavioral interview. But, it seems a lot of people feel that way. I bet we did better than we think!

        • Briar Dunn

          indeed…one of my connections who is a PMF said that everybody last year said the exact same thing! Crossingfingers***

      • Briar Dunn

        I wouldn’t worry too much, as long as you showed you were a good leader and team player, who can handle stress and then creates results you’ll be ok 🙂 Atleast that is what I learned from preparing for it and talking to current PMFs.

  • Briar Dunn

    Good luck to all the Semi-Finalist! The time is coming down to the wire…so pumped to see the results!

  • Pickmepickme!

    Is anybody else checking their email INCESSANTLY?!?! Waiting for the final word on Finalist status!!! *fingers crossed*

    • Ebele

      I am. Its taking too long. I am so restless!

    • Hopeful2015

      Me too! I keep checking this page too that’s how I found out about semi-finalist status update!

  • Anxious

    I thought I was the only one stalking my mail and this thread.

    • Alaska

      I am stalking constantly. I don’t think my phone is more than a foot away from me at any time either.

      • Johnny Bravo

        …I know !!! I never thought that I would become a lurker on a government website… sheesh #thatCreeplife

        • PMFTroll

          I’ll join you in that statement… Checking this every few days in case I missed an email. I originally thought I wouldn’t be bothered, but now that I made it this far, I am ready to find out my fate! I hate #standingfast…

        • Johnny Bravo

          Alaska did you make it?!!! I hope so…

      • AMR

        Same!! I linked my official e-mail account to my phone in case the decision comes while I’m at lunch… Or anywhere besides my desk. PMF decision >>> work-life balance.

    • hopeful2015

      Seriously they need to just go ahead and post the results. Doesn’t make sense why it’s taken THIS long!

  • Fingerscrossedfor6months

    HHS PMF recruitment Fair is April 14/15th, it is an in-person event (internal HHS email).

    • pmfs

      hmmm how did you hear about this?? AHHHH the wait is killing me!

    • PMF Thread Stalker

      I don’t see why any poster would make this up (no logical reason to do so) but I want official verification so I can book my flight!

    • anon

      I got the same email. It’s for real!

    • NYC

      Any idea on the times of the job fair? I am currently working at a job where I will not be able to take those two days off. My only hope is to take a half day and take the train in from NYC and catch as much of the fair as I can.

  • pmfs

    We should have found out this week if anything…even tomorrow..come on!!! hahaha Are they really gonna wait til 2-3 weeks before the job fair….

    • Not in DC

      Cutting it so close between announcing finalists and the in-person job fair is completely inappropriate when considering the ever-increasing costs, which candidates must bear themselves, associated with travel for anyone outside of DC and the Eastern Seaboard. It’s unprofessional and inconsiderate on the part of OPM, and wholly inexplicable.

      • pmfs

        exactly!! I could care less if they paid for it…but it’s on us…both times (the interview and job fair)

    • Alaska

      I agree totally. If I attend the job fair I will be traveling from Alaska. Even if they announce tomorrow I will have a hard time getting a flight. Anything within a two week window and I might as well fly first class!

  • DC Pmf

    Does anyone know of semi-finalists from this round who were semi-finalists in the last round? I guess what I’m worried about is 1) not making it to the finalist round or 2) making it to the finalist round but not finding a placement. In either of those scenarios, can we re-apply and do those individuals who gone that far have equal as a chance at advancing in subsequent years?

    • Victoria

      Yes, I met someone who fits within that category. The ability to reapply has nothing to do with someone’s previous year placement. There are many semifinalists from last cycle who weren’t selected as semifinalists this cycle. Anyone is able to apply/reapply to the PMF program if he/she is a candidate for his/her degree and/or within 2 years of when his/her degree is conferred.

      An analogy: In baseball, the hitter who only made it to second base in a previous game, will not start on second base in an upcoming game. He/she must face a new pitcher alike the benchwarmer. To answer your question, all semifinalists have an equal chance to become finalists; now reaching the Fellow status is a different ballgame.

      • Victoria

        Correction:Anyone is able to apply/reapply to the PMF program if he/she is a candidate for his/her degree and/or within 2 years post of getting his/her degree.

        • DC Pmf

          So if I become a finalist, but take another job outside of PMF (say at a law firm), I can still reapply the following year if am within 2 years post receiving my degree? I ask because I am really worried that I won’t be able to have the luxury of waiting for a placement if another job offer comes along since I am a degree candidate and don’t have a current position that I can just continue if PMF doesn’t work out. Although PMF is my top choice.

          • Victoria

            The note below is directly from the PMF website; read the last sentence thoroughly..it pertains to you.

            NOTE: The information below explains the eligibility criteria in general. Please click on the class year application webpage to the left for more specific information.

            If you will meet all advanced degree requirements (even though you have not necessarily graduated), including the completion or successful defense of any required thesis or dissertation, you are eligible to apply. Eligibility is based on completion of degree requirements by August 31st of the following year of the annual application.

            – OR –

            If you have completed an advanced degree (masters, professional, or doctorate) from a qualifying college or university during the previous two years from the opening date of the PMF Program’s annual application announcement, you are eligible to apply.

            NOTE: Individuals who previously applied for the program, but were not selected as a Finalist, may reapply if they meet eligibility requirements. Current Finalists who have not obtained a PMF appointment may apply for the next PMF application; however, they will forfeit their status as a current Finalist upon accessing the on-line assessment.

            http://www.pmf.gov/become-a-pmf/eligibility.aspx

          • GAU

            Yes, if you are a finalist you can re-apply, but you can’t be an applicant and a finalist at the same time. You are gambling that you will make it through the process again, which is certainly not a guarantee.

          • Btwovegas

            Thanks Victoria! great answer. Oh and for those that don’t make it, try again next year. I didn’t make it the first year as a finalist (made Semi-finalist) but made it the 2nd year. Anything is possible..

  • So confused

    Sooo I’m sure all of us are looking for other employment while we wait this out. Say we become finalists but receive another non-PMF job offer and can’t afford to turn it down because finding a placement through PMF is a gamble. When we take that non-pmt job offer do we revoke our “finalist” status (I know that we can no longer look for positions through PMF if we take a different job, but are we still considered “finalists” for purpose of, say, a resume?)

    • Victoria

      No, your PMF finalist status won’t be revoked. Prior to applying to the program, some folks already have government positions. You can ask your agency to convert your position to that of a PMF. If your agency already offers a PMF placement for your prospective position, you shouldn’t have a problem. Though if it doesn’t, then your agency will have to pay a couple thousand dollars (forgot the exact amount) to create that position. Both of those options were executed in the past. Regardless of if a finalst obtains a position or doesn’t, his/her status will end a year after results are revealed.

      • Btwovegas

        Victoria is correct. If you are a federal worker you do not give up your PMF eligibility. You have it for the entire timeframe. Obvious the PMF position does have its ups and downs if you are already a Career employee already. If you can’t find a PMF position then get any job you can to pay the bills and compare the offers after that. You will see that most of the time only 50-60 of the PMF’s find positions. It doesn’t mean that they were denied positions. Many simply want it for the title, and others find positions in the private sector or within the government as a higher paygrade and simply choose not to try for a PMF position.

    • GAU

      There is no reason you couldn’t continue to look for a PMF position while in a different job. Why would there be?

  • Victoria

    Last year the first job fair was on April 28th; second on Aug. 7th. According to the PMF Facebook page, the 2014 Finalist results came out on April 10th.

    If “fingerscrossedfor6months” is correct that the job fair will be on April 14-15th, then our results should come next Tuesday (24th).

    I hope results come out today! Tuesday seems so far away…Monday does as well.

    • CTpmf

      I hope it’s today, then I would be able to relax over the weekend!

      • Btwovegas

        Relax for the next two weeks folks. They won’t announce it until the 2014 Candidate time period is up on 10 April. And yes I checked every hour for like two weeks straight. 🙂

        • PoliSciPMF

          Several people said that they contacted OPM and were told we would find out by April 1st…Additionally, the semi-finalist interviews were held a month earlier this year. Why would we find out the same time as last year if the interviews were a month earlier? And OPM can state that 2015 finalists can’t apply for positions until after April 10th (there are many ways to ensure that the 2014 finalists get their full year before the 2015 finalists start applying) I guess my question is, on what authority are you speaking? Are you officially affiliated with OPM/PMF or is this just your best judgement call?

          • Btwovegas

            Being a PMF and calling it my best judgment call from watching 4 years of results being posted. Your more than welcome to check every 5 minutes though if you would like 🙂 If they have it out early then you guys will be happy. Your official date to start eligibility would be on 11 April though anyways.

    • hopeful2015

      I hope today as well so we can have the weekend to celebrate! I think they probably won’t announce until March 31st. I still don’t understand why it takes so long!

  • Briar Dunn

    I’m officially becoming a stalker of this page hahah! I want this so bad!

    • DesperateAp

      Me too. This will be my only chance to apply. The anxiety has caused me to lose weight….not that I’m complaining about the weight loss….lol

      • hopeful2015

        Stress usually has opposite effect on me! I’m jealous! haha….. I’m glad this thread is picking up….We’re all in this together!!

  • hopeful2015

    By the way does anyone know if there will be a virtual fair?

    • pickmepickme

      No, I don’t believe there will be.

      • Btwovegas

        Highly doubtful, it was a massive failure!

        • GAU

          The in-person fair was a massive failure in 2014, too. Were you there?

          • Btwovegas

            The first one was! lol I remember 115 degrees in the room and I was in a 3 piece suit 🙁 The second one at HUD was much better and organized. I think they learned their lesson. Well I hope they did… nothing is worse then showing up to a job fair and no one wants to do interviews, everyone is just telling you to go online and apply (I could of stayed home for that!), and then they just stack the resumes and never read them.
            They should hold it in HUD again if they were smart.

          • GAU

            Then add the fact that certain agencies (cough State) posted a large number of jobs that day and they were only up for maybe 24 hours. Wasted time that people could have spent actually applying for tangible positions. I did not go to the second fair, glad to hear it was better.

  • pmfs

    For those who are PMF stem and are looking for appointments elsewhere, like CDC in Atlanta, is the on site DC job fair going to have Atlanta representatives?? Hhmm I am guessing there is a job site we will rely on.

    • anon

      I was told that they fly people in from CDC to attend the job fair, and that it is definitely advantageous to go to the job fair even if you’re not trying to work in DC.

  • Science PMF?

    Several people have posted that the announcement will come before April 1st, and the Job Fair is April 14-15th. Given those dates, I *think* the finalist list will be posted early next week. That would allow for a finalist coffee chat later in the week (Thurs or Fri, perhaps). It would also leave two weeks for people to post resumes, etc, on the TAS, and for agencies review before the fair. Just my thoughts.

    • hopeful2015

      This makes sense. It still doesn’t give us much time but I guess it’s the “worst case scenario” IF the job fair is indeed in April 14-15.

      • Btwovegas

        This is the HHS Health and Human Services Job Fair looking for positions only at HHS. The actual PMF Job Fair would be different event. Each agency is more than welcome to present its own Job Fair. I would expect it to occur around the same time if the main office could coordinate the personnel.

  • HopefulPMF

    The tension is killing me

  • CTpmf

    Are there any statistics on the number of PMFs that get placements outside of DC? Just wondering how common it is.

    • Btwovegas

      I would say 15%. Many of them get hired on by the agencies in DC but since they live close to a field office they allow them to work from the field office instead. There isn’t really an accurate listing though. The PMF site used to show locations but since removed it in preparation for the next class.

  • Btwovegas

    Don’t worry folks the results will be out shortly. The 2014 finalist timeframe is up on 10 April. It usually takes a week to coordinate everything for the 2015 Finalists. For those that do make the Finalist cut, congratulations! For those that don’t please try again next year if you are eligible. I tried both years (semi-finalist first year, Finalist second year).
    For those that make the finalist cut, here is some much heeded advice:
    1. Make plans to attend the in person job fair here in Washington D.C. Contact the Agencies you are interested in and identify yourself as a 2015 finalist. They can arrange for interviews the day of the Job Fair and possible unofficial job offers. Nothing is guaranteed but networking is key!
    2. Decide which agency you truly want to work for and start prepping your resume (one resume for each type of work) along with writing samples to provide the PMF coordinators that ask.
    3. For those that have 10+ years of experience in their field you can expect a GS-11 position. For others who are coming straight out of school expect a GS-9 position. For PHD’s and JD’s you can expect to come in as a GS-11 or GS-12, but each one of these paygrades are up to each department. Please talk to the interviewer to determine if they will offer you what you are worth. Remember that even a GS-9 will be a GS-11 in two years with program. Its completely depends on what your target position GS level is. Mine is a GS-13 and I’m a GS-11 right now so after 1 year I’m a GS-12 and after 2 years I’m a GS-13 and converted to a career employee. Remember to fight for your experience and accurate pay. Some agencies lowball (cough cough Department of State cough cough) so shiny up your experience.
    4. These positions do not come with unlimited funds. Each department has set aside some funds for their PMF’s but its not very much. You will be more than likely be limited to where you can go on a rotation (unless you foot the entire bill minus your normal pay) and highly unlikely you will attend the huge seminars that cost $$$ except the Congressional Brief for PMF’s. Dependent on which department you work for, you may be limited to when and even where you can do your rotation.
    5. if you don’t live in DC and plan to move here. Find a roommate quick! Its expensive and as a GS-9 you will not be able to afford anything remotely close. The metro is great, but the commutes can be painful sometime.
    6. There are outlying positions throughout the country for almost every agency. Just ask! Many of times they want the new PMF’s here in D.C. but a field office will take them too!
    7. Many PMF’s permanently transfer to other agencies during their rotation or to a different office during their time at home departments. It is a normal process to ensure the PMF finds a position to which they are suitable. So if you have a job you might like but not sure, accept it and try your best. If you find something later on, you could always switch later on explaining that its a better fit for your skillset. (not exactly great for your reviews, but most supervisors understand)
    8. Be happy that you made it through this tedious process. Its no cake walk once you get on board but you worked hard to be where you are at and now its time to shine and show the government that you have what it takes!

    • Rachel

      Thanks BTWovegas. Do you know what would be considered a good writing sample?

      • Btwovegas

        The first few pages of your thesis would be fine. However, I grabbed some of my final papers from various courses from my last year of my masters and provided them to the interviewers. It might be a little dated for intelligence but they want to assess your writing style. Not very many people will ask for them but its much easier to have them ready to go. Head up though if you want a State of DoD position, prepare to have a paper tailored for the specific area that you are interested in. I.e. If you want a Foreign Affairs position that deals with the Middle East, prepare a 4-5 page paper that analyzes the current embargo effects against Iran and how it may or may not hurt Iran’s support to Iraq in the fight against ISIS.

    • Rachel

      …and could you please elaborate what you mean by “one resume for each type of work” ?

      • Btwovegas

        If you want to work for the State Department it would correspond to your international politics and political science experience. But if you see a position for Veteran Affairs, you might want a resume that shows your involvement in public relations and veteran programs. Its all about key words. I myself can either go for Political, Geo-Spatial, Counter-Intelligence, or Program Management and have to adjust my resume so it focuses my experiences to the reader whom might hire me.

    • CTpmf

      Thanks Btwovegas for the advice! Someone below mentioned they contacted the PMF office and they said the list would be out before April 1st. So is that incorrect?

      • Btwovegas

        They will never give an exact date but normal protocol over the past 4 years has been to wait for the previous class termination date to expire and then put out the new list. If they do manage to put it out before April 1st, I would be really shocked.

    • GAU

      I mostly agree with everything but #3. Federal hiring is in favor of agencies now. If you are right out of school without years and years of experience, you’ll be hired as a GS-9, Step 1, no question about it. They also do not have to promote you, say from a GS-9 to 11, during the two-year fellowship, and you cannot go above a GS-12 until you have completed the program.

      • Btwovegas

        True, they do not have to promote you if you fail to pass the basic requirement of your position during your evaluations. But if your target scale is a 13 and your an 11 now, you are promoted at your first year anniversary to a 12 automatically (as long as you receive a favorable evaluation)
        Oh and yes these are all Step 1 positions. Our GS-9’s move from 9 to 11 at the end of one year and then to 13 after two years. 11’s move from 11 to 12 and then 12 to 13. Another fun step to talk to your interviewer about and obtain in writing prior to accepting a position because some full scale positions are only GS-11.

        • GAU

          No, they don’t have to promote you at all. It is a conditional position. They don’t have to promote in line with the competitive service, but they also have leeway for more from what I have read and seen. They could park you at 9 for two years. Even the PMF website says you may (emphasis may) be promoted.

          • Btwovegas

            A contract is a contract. Even the federal government has to obey their contracts… If your dumb enough to sign a contract/hiring agreement that does not give raises nor promotions at set intervals based on evaluations, then thats your fault. Yes it is conditional, but its conditional based upon evaulations. (to all you folks reading this, me and GAU are PMF’s and just arguing the finer points). The old way was you were guranteed a position at the end of two years but people slipped through the cracks or departments were downsized or moved. The program won’t gurantee you a position at the end of two years, but nothing is guranteed in this world today. At the end of two years they are going to try their best to get you a permanent position but if you are a slacker and your evals were horrible then of course you will not be retained. The conditional gives them an “out” if they desire.
            But please if you know if any PMF that has not been retained at the end of two years please entertain us. Im not just talking in a certain office, im talking they were released/fired at the end of two years despite good evaluations.

          • GAU

            I don’t know of anybody, but that’s not what this was about. I know that my agency was 100% conversion, and I would say the vast majority are converted to permanent or term positions. There are some agencies that do not hire PMFs into specific positions and rotate them through several offices in hopes of finding a permanent home from them in two years, and as far as I know that works out, but you could run into the problem that in two years they just don’t have the ability to keep somebody in a position. At least I know that I was hired into what was a vacant billet – they could have hired a PMF or advertised competitively, but either way it was a vacant position that needed filled and pending anything drastic will exist for years to come.

          • GAU

            Forgot to mention, the applicable reg is 5 CFR 362.405(c). And part of the problem is that OPM hasn’t updated their “agency handbook” since the new regulations were published years ago.

          • Guest2

            Do you think that’s a little ridiculous to tell these enthusiastic hopeful candidates? Are you aware of an incident where a person was not promoted during their two years? Just don’t think you should tell people things like that without proof to back it up. Just my two cents

          • GAU

            Who needs more proof than the fact that OPM says you are not guaranteed to be promoted?

  • Victoria

    So, of course I did some research. The release dates for Finalists were:

    2010: Mar. 2nd….In-Person Fair: March 30 – April 1, 2011

    2011: Mar. 31st…In-Person Fair: April 19 – 21, 2012

    2012: Jan 24th….In Person Fair: March 19 – 21, 2013

    2013: April 10th…Virtual Fair: May 1 – 3, 2013 & March 3, 2014

    2014: April 9th….In-Person Fair: April 28 & August 7, 2014

    Yes, it is possible for results to come out earlier than the previous class’ completion date.

    • Victoria

      The dates listed are from the PMF official Finalist Listings (PDFs). So you can add a day to get the ‘official’ release date to the public.

    • cali dreaming

      thats the kind of can-do attitude that’ll get you a pmf appointment

    • CTpmf

      Thanks for checking that out! I figured if they said before April 1st, they mean before April 1st.

    • AMR

      Yeah I was a little skeptical when the previous poster made that comment. Thanks for checking on that!!

      • Victoria

        A couple years back I was told that I was too old to apply for a specific scholarship. I was 21 at the time. I found out two years later that the max age is 23. I missed that opportunity by listening to the ‘wind’ instead of verifying the information. Lesson learned. I verify everything now. You should too!

  • pmfs

    It’d be funny if they released the finalist names a day before the job fair…..ok it wouldn’t be funny.

  • ItllBeAllright

    Hi All — this has been very helpful. Thank you!

    I am still a little confused about the promotion system in the PMF. I understand that in principle (you pass your evaluations, there is enough budget to promote you, etc.) all PMFs move up two grades during their fellowship. For example:

    Enter as GS 9: After year 1 –> GS 10
    : After year 2 –> GS 11
    Leave GS 11

    Enter as GS 10: After year 1 –> GS 11
    After year 2 –> GS 12
    Leave GS 12

    Enter as GS 11: After year 1 –> GS 12
    After year 2 –> GS 13
    Leave GS 13

    Does it actually work like this in reality? Some of my confusion comes from not hearing much about the GS 10 level. Is is skipped traditionally? If Victoria and Btwovegas, ex PMFers, among others, could help answer this question that’d be great.

    Also, I’d love more elaboration on how to email agencies that you’re interested in working with. Who do you actually email in the agency? Do I just email the info email address on the website and hope a human being reads my email and cares enough to respond to me? Thanks in advance!

    • anon

      No one is GS-10, so you would make the jump from GS-9 to GS-11. After a year, you do get the pay grade jump, provided you had good evals. I don’t think you are guaranteed another jump when/just before you convert to a permanent position, but for whatever reason, I get the sense that it isn’t uncommon for that to happen.

      Also, I’m pretty sure you would e-mail the Agency PMF Coordinator and/or respond to job postings within the agency you are interested in.

    • GAU

      Nothing is guaranteed while you are in the program because you are a conditional, not a competitive, employee. The standard competitive employee who starts at GS-9 would be eligible for 11 after one year, 12 after another year, etc., until they reach the top of the “ladder” of that particular position, then they move up the steps within the same grade. Agencies MAY promote you this way, but again its a special hiring program and they don’t have to until you are converted to a permanent, competitive service position at the end of two years. Another thing is you cannot be promoted above 13 during the fellowship, which means if you are hired at 13 then you are there for the duration of the two years, though being hired as a 13 would be very rare and dependent on many years of experience.

  • Briar Dunn

    Crossing fingers*** This could be the week!

    • PmfAp

      I hope the finalist are announced today

      • Briar Dunn

        you and me both!

        • CTpmf

          I am checking this page, the PMF website, and my email approximately every hour like a crazy person! I’m so excited!

  • pmfs

    They announced semi-finalists on a Wednesday after 4pm….maybe it’ll be this Wednesday….or today?? hmmm so much uncertainty!

    • anon

      I have a feeling it’s going to be March 31. Blargh!

      • hopeful2015

        Me too! I don’t see them annoucing a day sooner than March 31st. Good news is we’re almost at the end of the month!

    • Briar Dunn

      I was thinking/hoping the same thing.

    • AMR

      Haha. I love reading each of our analyses/hopes. I hope you are right!!

  • RecentConvert

    Good luck to all of the semi-finalists! I remember coming here often when I was waiting for the finalists names to be released. Real often.
    I saw a few comments in the thread and thought I could share my experience briefly. I was a class of 2012 Fellow. I was recently converted in 2014 to a permanent position.
    1. If you are selected, I strongly encourage reaching out to folks to schedule an interview prior to attending the DC job fair.
    2. Attend the job fair. As a grad student I know that funds can be tight, but jobs are offered at this event. I drove 19 hours and ended up staying in an inexpensive hotel out by the airport. It was a commitment, but worth it. I received several offers from the interviews I had and was able to select the position that best suited my goals.
    3. Talk to people at the job fair. Most people at the booths are really nice and helpful. In addition, your fellow finalists may also hear about positions that you have not heard about.
    4. After you land a position, do it well. Expectations are high, but the rewards are worth it. While you are not expected to know everything immediately, you will be expected to learn things quickly.
    5. Guidelines may have changed, so the following may not be accurate now. Maybe others can provide insight? I had a Master’s when I applied and was hired on at a GS-9. After six months, I was promoted to a GS-11. The one year time in grade requirement for promotion was (still is?) waived for PMF’s. I did need to show that I had at least one years worth of experience at the GS-9 level though. I had worked for a couple years prior to going to grad school, and that counted.
    6. Consider taking a position that is offered, even if it is not your dream position. I took an excellent position in DC even though it was far from my family and friends. I did my developmental rotation in my hometown and later transferred and converted into a position that I enjoy in a place I love.
    7. Lastly, If you’re selected, actively search for details. The details I did were never posted anywhere. I worked with host agencies to specifically tailor details that fit my and their needs.
    Well, that’s a lot of writing. I planned on leaving a quick note. I wish you all the best of luck. If you have any questions, just leave a note.

    • pmfs

      Hi, would you mind sharing how you were able to schedule interviews before the job fair? How did you reach out to people and know who to pass your info along to?

      • CTpmf

        I think other PMFs have mentioned they contacted the agency coordinator ahead of time to schedule an interview at the job fair. However, there might be other ways as well.

        • Briar Dunn

          Yes what I have found on the PMF site, is a list of Finalist and Coordinators. This allows for us to be in contact with the appropriate party.

      • RecentConvert

        I know the program has changed a bit since I began in 2012, so while I hope the following info is relevant, I can’t guarantee it is.
        The PMF website listed positions that were available. I provided my resume and other pertinent info to the point of contact prior to the job fair. In my email, I conveyed my interest in interviewing for the position if at all possible. I had several interviews scheduled a week before the job fair.
        Contact agency PMF coordinators. Find the directory for the agency you are looking at and start calling folks. If they don’t have or if you can’t find the PMF coordinator, try HR. Be persistent, be patient, and be nice.
        Use you personal network to find folks. Use your thesis advisor, past supervisors, anyone who may know someone in the agency you want to get in to. It’s amazing how small of a world it is and who knows who.
        Lastly, at the job fair, approach every booth. Let them know your education and specialty, and ask if they have any positions that have a need for your skills. I found that many agencies had positions that I qualified for, even though the agency’s main focus was not in my field.

    • PoliSciPMF

      Hi! Thank you for the information! Could you please expand on what you mean by actively search for details? And you would you please expand on how/what is the process involved in working with a host agency to tailor the details? Thank you!

      • RecentConvert

        I pursued details a couple of ways. I’m sure there are other ways as well. The caveat to the following is that my supervisor was extremely supportive. I understand that not all supervisors may be as supportive.
        1. I began discussions about the requirements of the PMF program immediately with my supervisor (whether or not your supervisor is supportive, I think it is a good idea to discuss your needs while on-boarding). He was aware of the need to do two rotations and he was very supportive. He suggested several programs within the agency that he thought would be good developmental assignments. He also knew the right people to connect me with to make this a reality. Having said this, I did not choose any of the developmental assignments he brought up.
        2. As mentioned in my original post, I took a position in DC even though I knew I did not want to work inside the Beltway forever. I began reaching out to folks in the geographic area I wanted to work in within the first three months of my appointment. I did not have an in with any of the people I was reaching out to, so I just Googled agencies in this particular area. I looked in directories on their websites and started making cold calls and emails. I stated who I was, what the PMF program is, and what I was looking for. I was eventually connected with the right people and we worked for a couple of months to create a six month plan of work.
        In my agency (maybe agencies differ here?), the home unit paid my salary while on the developmental rotation. This is very important to figure out prior to looking for a detail. This made it a very easy sell when looking for an assignment. I could simply reach out to folks and say, “Hey, I’m looking to lead a project in your department. I am a motivated, educated leader looking to do six months of work for you and you do not have to pay my salary”. This is a huge benefit of the PMF program. The gaining unit provided my lodging and per diem. This was all worked out in an MOU prior to starting the rotation.
        The last point I want to stress is that communication is key. Talk to your supervisor. Let him know what you want. This program is not designed to just be a way to get in to the government (It is not just a job). It is designed to create leaders within the government. You have a responsibility to work hard for your agency and supervisor, but they also have a responsibility to give you the opportunities to be successful. Be honest, be nice and work hard and this program will get you where you want to go.

        • Ebele

          What would you suggest for someone interested in development/international work. Which agencies should I consider and how can I make the type of connections that you made? I am an epidemiologist so I am a applied to the PMF-stem

          • RecentConvert

            I do not work in your field, so I’m not sure I can provide any specific insight (sorry!). In general though, I would research agencies that do work in your field. Maybe your academic advisor or past supervisors could help you here? I have always found that people are more likely to correspond with you if you can start an email or conversation with “I was referred to you by…”
            I also found it useful to spend time researching different agencies online. It is surprising to see how many domestic agencies have an international component.

    • AMR

      Thank you!! I really appreciate those of you who are sharing your experiences!

    • pickmepickme

      Thanks for your insight!!!!

  • dissolutioned

    Another wasted day… I’m starting to seriously question the value of this program. It’s an exceptionally drawn out process that is aimed at attracting talent that otherwise wouldn’t go into government service. But I know a number of candidates that have been so discouraged by the length of this process that they’ve given up. It’s hard to seriously ask someone to pass up other job offers in order to wait this long for finalist status that merely allows you to apply for jobs as a PMF. I’m also beginning to find it hard to believe that agencies really like recruiting this way. First of all the agency is footing the bill for the PMFs salary and has to pay for all the required PMF training and rotations. Secondly, the program website says the agencies have to pay OPM back for running this drawn out recruitment process. I believe this year’s cost is about $7000 per PMF. Basically, I can’t understand why an agency would hire a person in a way that requires the agency to shoulder extra costs beyond the new employee salary when they could just recruit through a normal USAJobs listing and attract the same people that would be applying to the PMF program. The program is ostensibly supposed to have a leadership component, but every PMF I’ve ever met just ends up as a rank and file federal employee. Not a manager or leader etc.

    • NotSoPatientlyWaiting

      I agree that it is really unfair to ask people to wait this long. It’s rare for someone to be able to turn down a job offer for the 15% chance–that if you even become a finalist–you will actually get a placement. Announcements about finalists should be in January to early February at the latest.

      • GAU

        It’s not particularly quick to evaluate 700 interviews, 700 essays, and 150-200 group exercises. The past timeframes are publicly available before you apply.

        • GAU

          I wouldn’t recommend anybody turn down a job offer, unless you can really afford that luxury.

        • CTpmf

          Did only approximately 700 semi-finalists make it to the in-person assessment?

          • GAU

            You’re right! I was thinking off the approximate number of finalists. There were actually 1000 semifinalists.

      • GAU

        @NotSoPatiently, your numbers are more pessimistic than reality. If you have made it to the semi-finals, you have better than a 50% of becoming a finalist, and then close to 70% of finalists found a job from the 2014 class. This is a upward trending number too, as agencies are continuing to recover from shutdowns/sequestration. Don’t worry! If you get it, awesome! If not, neither did thousands of other graduates!

    • pmfs

      I agree. I think waiting until late March/April to let people know that they are finalists is what causes finalists to have trouble finding positions. Did anyone do the logistics for why they should not let you know sooner. I understand the whole thing about letting the previous year finalists have more time…but it is just a terrible cycle.

    • anon

      Don’t turn down job offers! Why would you do that? That’s equivalent to turning down job offers because you had an interview for another job. Just keep going, and if you get a PMF position, you can reevaluate.

      I agree that it’s a long process and it’s frustrating to be the one waiting, but it’s an opportunity. We aren’t owed anything. Also, government is slow, and that’s something that you have to be prepared for, lest you go completely insane.

      • AMR

        Yeah you should definitely take job offers, and just keep them in the loop re: pmf

      • AMR

        Also, solid point, anon – we are lucky to be here, stressing out. I know many students who didn’t make it this far!

  • yes or no

    Coming from california, this announcement is really cutting it close to fly out for this alleged HHS job fair on april 14-15

    -_-

    • GAU

      Key word is alleged.

  • still waiting

    There’s really no reason to keep everyone in suspense this long. I get that it takes them a while to process everyone’s evaluations. But there’s no reason not to say the results will be out on March 31 or some other definite date. If they then have to announce a delayed release, that’s fine. But the whole, “we’ll let you know some time between January 31 and April 1” is ridiculous. People have been anxiously checking the PMF site, this site, and their emails for the past two months. With a definite date, we’d still have to wait a long time for a response, but the suspense would be a little less intense since we’d know when the decision would be coming at least. The program has been around for 40+ years…. seems like they should have worked out a better process by now.

    • Guest

      I think the best way to look at is that April 1 is that definite date – and that if it comes out sooner, that’s just a bonus. Although as I say that, I’m checking my e-mail. Feels a lot like waiting for bar results. Every day adds just a biiit more anxiety.

    • GAU

      I don’t understand the anxiety. What does constantly checking email accomplish, except maybe you know 15 minutes before somebody else? Everybody is in the same boat. You don’t have a disadvantage compared to anybody else. When you apply to grad school you aren’t told you will hear back on December 1. The last class (my class) was announced around April 10, so you should not expect anything before that, and if you they do announce earlier, then its a bonus. You’re hoping for a government job afterall…so patience is and will be a virtue.

      • pmfs

        I understand the anxiety….are you a current pmf semifinalist waiting to hear for finalist results?? If you aren’t, then I can understand why you can’t understand our anxiety. #anxiety

      • hopeful2015

        It helps to know that we’re not alone in our anxiety. You’re already in so maybe you’ve forgotten the days/weeks leading to the finalist announcement. Let us stress/vent it’ll be over soon. Most of us don’t know anyone else who is a PMF candidate, so this is the only place we have to talk about the whole PMF process

    • Victoria

      Yes, and my assumption (which is not definite) is that our in-person assessment scores were evaluated the day of the assessment. I recall the ‘monitors’ being in the computer room once we were done with our essays. So I can’t comprehend the idea that the ‘monitors’ waited until all the in-person assessments were done to grade our performances. Four to 6 weeks (Finalists announcement) after the in-person assessment is long and gone.

      GAU: The anxiety is real. For me, I live in a state where I have no family (attending grad school) and have to provide a 60 days notice next month; my lease is expiring in May. I need to know where I’m going to live after May and gain employment. It’s not about getting the results earlier or later than the next or previous PMF class, it is about taking into consideration that some/if not most of the applicants are graduate candidates will be out of school by Aug. This is the time to decide where we will live and work.

      Per the graduate school notification comment, acceptance dates are listed on a school’s website and/or potential students are able to call and get a definite answer of when decisions will be made.

      So no, everyone is not in the same boat. All semi-finalists aren’t living near D.C., around family, nor okay with Finalists as yourself constantly telling us that we should not be anxious.

      You are already in and you’ve stated that you checked multiple times yourself for the results. So why is it a problem for us to do it?

      I didn’t view anyone from the 2013 class harassing your class during the process, so why are you constantly on us?

      Goodness gracious…is there not a current PMF forum you can be a part of or maybe you could create?

      Let us worry, freak out , have anxiety, scream at the top of our lungs if we want!

      • GAU

        It’s pretty silly and petty to consider this “harassment”. I think myself and others have simply tried to answer some questions out there and provide our insights. If you don’t like it, maybe that’s your problem.

        • GAU

          In grad school, I remember the kind of people like this who freaked out about everything! Dealing with stress is a big part of a successful career…best to start practicing now. The chances are good that you are a finalist. As for your living situation, even if you found out a month ago and interviewed immediately processing and on-boarding takes time…months.

          • Victoria

            GAU. Thank you for proving my point.

            Don’t act as if you are an innocent bystander…just answering some questions; ol snake in the grass who is tossing with the wind.

            “I don’t understand the anxiety. What does constantly checking email accomplish, except maybe you know 15 minutes before somebody else?”

            Cry me a river with the “dealing with stress is a big part of a successful career…best to start practicing now.”

            I’m a combat veteran who has interned within the gov’t sector. I know the process.

            So thanks for your input. I’ll eat it as my evening snack. GAU you have a great evening.

          • Anon

            If you’re a vet, why complain? The red carpet is out for you.

          • PmfAp

            Are you saying that all vets become finalist?

          • Anon

            Not sure, but they do have preference at each step of the process, including when applying for positions as finalists. I know in regular hiring (like USAJOBS) some hiring officials won’t even look at non-vets.

          • Anon

            I think I saw a number somewhere that showed vets made up a much higher percentage of finalist than they did initial applicants. I’ll try to find.

          • PmfAp

            I thought that the non-vet applicants outnumber vets by a large number. I have nothing against vets at all, so I hope no one gets that impression. Just checking to see my chances of becoming a finalist.

          • Briar Dunn

            I saw there is a 1 and 10 chance of making a Finalist, and that out of the 1000 who were awarded Semi-Finalist that only 900ish actually showed up…and that the need for PMFs this year will increase from the 600+ from previous year, due to the economy/success of the program. As well, by the time the Finalist are announced many wont take the appointment, due to them having a job already. Meaning, everybody has a great chance of getting an appointment if you prepared well, studied up as much as you could and knocked it out the day of your in-person assessment!

            Disclaimer: Most of this information was word of mouth from a buddy who has a connection in the OPM. However, who knows in the end…!

          • GAU

            Between 60-70% of finalist from last year had an appointment. How manyof the rest stopped looking because they had a job they liked, we can’t tell.

          • Briar Dunn

            Indeed

          • AMR

            You are incredibly uplifting right now. Thank you!! 😉

          • Briar Dunn

            Well it’s how we should be! Regardless, a good attitude wins the day. PMF or not 🙂 Best of Luck!

          • AMR

            I saw this too – there’s always vet preference in federal hiring

          • Victoria

            Yes..I hear it all the time….Americans don’t mind that we (Vets) volunteer to public service so that you all can swipe your butts in peace, but want to run us down with fire sticks because we get the ‘red carpet’! Whatever…the GS system is points based. My extra 5 points won’t get me far if I don’t have the skills. Heck you ought to worry about spouses…they get 10 points. It is common knowledge that the PMF program favors no one…many veterans, ivy league grads, and even current fed employees didnt make it to semifinalists. Maybe you should review all of the finalist listing. Nonvets greatly outnumber vets. I don’t have a problem with it. May the best candidate win. Plus…vet and other preferences are calculated at job placement. So until we make Finalist, it is an even playing field.

          • PmfAp

            Veteran points are applied at every stage. Not complaining because you earned it ……. I couldn’t do it….lol. Good luck!

          • David

            Vets preference is calculated at every stage in the redesigned PMF process. That’s why there was an overhaul in the program in 2012. Agencies were using the old PMF to basically get around vet preference and they got sued and lost.

            Spouses don’t get preference unless the veteran is severely disabled to the point where they cannot work.

            And of course you know how preference is applied at the job search stage.

        • pmfs

          *snaps fingers in a z formation*

          • GAU

            If I was worried about not hurting feelings I would work at State.

  • Fingerscrossedfor6months

    For all those semi-finalists that are stressed out and anxious like myself – find a good kickboxing class, yoga, or other stress relieving activity. It really does help.

    • GAU

      EXACTLY! This really isn’t any worse than grad school, and if you’re a PhD or JD candidate, it should be a cake walk.

    • Briar Dunn

      I agree! I’m constantly active, and luckily have a full-time job too, but the work outs definitely help get me through 🙂

  • David

    Is OPM still telling people that results will come out before April 1st? Is the job fair rumor for the 14/15th been confirmed by OPM?

    I sent in an email but no response yet. I seriously doubt I’ll be able to make the job fair with just two weeks notice. I hope it’s just a rumor and the fair will be in May.

    • CTpmf

      Last year’s finalists were announced on April 10th and the job fair was on April 28th. So we’re looking at an approximate 2 week time frame between the announcement and the job fair, whenever they might be.
      Also, nothing has been confirmed yet except two people below were told before April 1st by the PMF office.

      • David

        That is a terrible system. Is it too much to ask for at least 4 weeks heads up?

        (Accidentally replied with a new thread)

        • CTpmf

          I think their mindset is that people should have the money set aside for the flight as if they will make it to finalist. As for time, I think they also believe most applicants are still in grad school, and will be able to take the time off from class/research. I’m not sure to be honest.

          • GAU

            Wouldn’t it make more sense to have the fair later in April, when most semesters are over?

          • CTpmf

            I don’t think any school is done completely before May, but I could be wrong. Either way someone will be put out. I’m sure someone will be scheduled to defend their dissertation or thesis during the job fair. I imagine it is hard to schedule something to please approximately 600 people, haha.

          • David

            Of course they can’t make everyone happy but they could at least make an attempt to give a decent amount of warning for people to plan to attend the fair. There are quite a few of us 2 years out of graduation and already working. Some of us even work or go to school outside of the US, or places at the opposite end of the country from DC.

            Two weeks is not enough notice to plan for an event of this importance. I can’t think of any reason why OPM can’t schedule the fairs months in advance and have the dates up on the website around January. That would at least give semi-finalists enough warning to block off their schedules.

          • CTpmf

            I definitely agree with you. I’m still in school and I work, so it will be a challenge to get myself down there without some hassle as well. For the in-person assessment I flew in and out same day for an afternoon assessment because I couldn’t afford a hotel room and I don’t have anyone to stay with. Either way, I’m pumped for the opportunity. Judging from how active we all are on here, I think I’m not the only one!

    • Alaska

      I already know that I am not going to be able to fly to DC again for the job fair. I live in Alaska, work full time, and I’m a single mom. It was a miracle to schedule the time to fly in for the interview. And I had one of the later interviews. Some of the people in the far flung places won’t be able to book flights with less than three weeks notice. I have been looking at flights and even if I could get the time off, the prices of tickets are becoming prohibitively expensive.

      • hopeful2015

        This may be a way to weed out or discourage people from attending the job fair which gives an unfair advantage to those who live locally or can afford to fly at a short notice. OPM has not confirmed the job fair dates so you never know!. I’m defending my thesis in May and my finals are in the end of April so really I don’t know how I’ll have time to prepare for the job fair. I also work full time and have a toddler.

        • AMR

          I doubt they’re trying to weed out finalists… Finalists’ success is in their interest. And like you said, we don’t actually know the date.

  • David

    That is a terrible system. Is it too much to ask for at least 4 weeks heads up?

  • Victoria

    David, PmfAp, and Anon, thanks for the info about vet points. I wasn’t aware the points are provided at each stage.

    Folks…look at the figures…there is no need to worry about vet preference.

    2013: 668 selected, 265 vets, 68 vets placed and 202 non-vets placed

    2014: 609 selected, 116 vets, 83 vets placed and 407 non-vets placed

  • David

    Question for current or past PMFs. Will agencies be flexible in interviewing candidates by Skype or phone if they cannot make it to the in-person fair?

    • RecentConvert

      I found that folks are quite flexible in doing interviews. I had several phone interviews prior to going to the DC job fair. Some finalists in the 2012 cohort actually received job offers prior to the fair by doing phone interviews. With that being said, if a finalist does not receive a job offer before the date of the fair, I would strongly recommend attending. I know it can be a strain (time, finances, etc.), but many people were offered jobs from the fair. Myself included.

  • Lee

    Wow this is taking forever. My biggest fear is that after checking everything 10x a day for the last month, that I don’t make pmf. But what can you do at this point ?
    Hopefully results come out today!

    • pmfs

      same here….I feel like my hopes are too high. It is gonna suck if I am not on that list :/ . Just telll usss alreadyyyy!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhh let me live my life! lol

    • AMR

      Ultimate nightmare. Although if we are this enthusiastic now, our energy probably came through in DC!!

  • Victoria

    What do you all think?

    This is from the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/PMF/More.html

    “Approximately 30 days after finalists notified – Finalists attend virtual job fair.”

    This is from this site (pathtopmf.com): http://pathtopmf.com/pmf-job-fair/

    “Typically, the Job Fair has been held in Washington, DC as a traditional, in-person event. However, this event became a Virtual Job Fair in Spring 2013. From what we can tell, it will be virtual again in 2015.”

    • CTpmf

      Ugh that would be awful. Didn’t they learn from previous times?

    • pmfs

      I don’t think that information is accurate at all. Especially since we weren’t notified 4-6 weeks after the in-person assessments.

      • Victoria

        I’m thinking the same thing and wondering why it is taking so long. Wasn’t all in-person assessments completed in Jan.? Maybe all of the 2015 semifinalists are so awesome that OPM can’t decide on the final listing. 🙂 I say, make us all finalists! Why not?

        • pmfs

          Right?? I mean we all tried!! We showed up and everything haha

          • GAU

            Even put on a suit!

          • Briar Dunn

            I put on a tie…with a tie clip! I deserve this lol

        • GAU

          Might as well. The big cut is down to semi-finalist. Then maybe 20% are cut from the finalist list. But then more people looking for jobs, so would you rather be a semi-finalist and not a finalist or a finalist and not find a job?

          • Victoria

            Well, a 2015 PMF Finalist sounds better than a 2015 PMF Semi-Finalist. So, I would rather be a finalist without a job. Then, I could sugar coat my resume/cv with my 2015 PMF Finalist Status. 🙂

          • PmfAp

            I’m definitely with you on that…lol

        • CTpmf

          The more we wait the more I panic that the percentage of finalists selected will be very high… and I will be on the losing end of the percentages! Gah!

  • Stat

    For those who are worried that a late notification will make it more difficult to attend the job fair, I want to say that my appointment had nothing to do with the job fair. My agency doesn’t even attend the fair. I applied through the TAS and interviewed over the phone. After that I thought the job fair was a waste of time and money. Especially since, as other commenters mentioned, it was a disaster in general last year. ymmv of course.

  • IndianaHopeful

    Like many of you I’m anxiously awaiting the results. Though I would like to share a quick story for those reaching a feverish panic. 2 years ago I was chosen to BEX for State Dept’s Diplomatic Security. I studied, and prepared for 6 months: read numerous books, rehearsed answers, learned everything in print about the agency, and everything else humanly possible to give me an edge. But I wasn’t selected.

    To say I was heartbroken would be an understatement. After 2 months of self-pity, I got my arse in gear and cranked out the final requirements of my M.A. (a year ahead of schedule). Shortly thereafter I found out I was being laid off (nearly 9 months ago); and here I sit still without work.

    The moral of my little tale, is while I’m eager for the PMF opportunity, I know that like with my failure applying for DSS, one failure opens up a door to something just as exciting and promising. If I’m not selected, I’ll use what I’ve learned for my next venture, and keep soldiering on.

    TL;DR Version: You’re highly qualified and able to make it this far, so keep your chin up and look forward whether you make it or not.

    • PmfAp

      Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you luck

    • Sandra

      Remember God is your Source. I have had to tell myself that many times when I moved to a new location and He is still providing no matter what.

  • Blergh

    Who else is questioning their sanity right now?

    • Briar Dunn

      Probably every one of us lol.

  • pmf

    Well it’s 4:40 pm and the PMF office is closed. Anyone have new information to share?

    Glancing over the 2014 PMF list, I’m seeing a few that got jobs as recently as February.

    • pmfs

      But do we know if that is because they had other jobs before?? or because they just couldn’t find anything til then? hmmm

      • David

        Also remember that top secret clearances can take 4+ months to complete. It’s not unheard of for clearances to take upwards of a year.

    • Guest

      Where is that list?

      • Dave

        (I’m bad with the comment system here and accidently posted this response elsewhere)

        Go to the PMF home page. Click on “application system”. Don’t log in but click “”view finalists and coordinators”. Click on “apply” to load up the 2014 list. Now click on “sort by agency”. EOD is the PMF’s start date.

  • pmfs

    Anyone else hear about the shortage of PMF stem jobs that were posted last year? I hope that is fixed for this year anyways.

    • Johnny Bravo

      That is also a concern of mine. I have read that it is possible to request that a non stem position be readvertised advertised as STEM in order to accomodate the STEM only requirement. I don’t know if this is true or not though.

  • Dave

    Go to the PMF home page. Click on “application system”. Don’t log in but click “”view finalists and coordinators”. Click on “apply” to load up the 2014 list. Now click on “sort by agency”. EOD is the PMF’s start date.

    • PMFingtiredofwaiting

      Can you only see last year’s class this way?

  • Picard, pmf

    Captains Log March 26, 2015, 8:52 a.m. – The wait continues. A growing coalition i f anxious candidates has gathered on the PMFguide website, filling the open thread with discussion. Our anxiety grows by the minute. Theories of the selection process and announcement date are swirling. I worry our loose and anonymous coalition cannot withstand the stress much longer. In hopes of easing the tension, I’ve asked Commander Riker to assemble an away team to visit the PMF office and attempt to negotiate a settlement. So far our adversaries have not flinched and though many believe these efforts futile, I remain hopeful that a resolution may be reached before April 1st.

    • PMFingtiredofwaiting

      This. is. amazing.

    • Alaska

      Epic.

    • Dax

      This is wonderful! Next Gen. inspired me to pursue a career in biology in hopes of making a positive impact on science in policy, management etc. and your comment really put everything in perspective for a moment. It’s great to look at this thread and smile. Even if I’m to be a red-shirted crewman in this process, I feel lucky to be in such good company. Thank you!

    • pickmepickme

      Well done. This made me smile. Thanks 🙂

  • Victoria

    The ball is now rolling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Current Semi-Finalist Listing shows 2016 : “This webpage will be updated to reflect the PMF Class of 2016 Semi-Finalists shortly after the 2016 PMF application closes.”

    Let today be the day OPM!! Please with a cherry on top!

  • pmf2015

    Under the Application System:

    Congratulations! You have been selected as a PMF Class of 2015 Finalist. Finalists will receive an email in a few days inviting them to an on-line informational webinar to help you prepare for placement.

    • Victoria

      I have the same thing…you made it!!!

  • Victoria

    It’s up…….check your status…I MADE IT>>>PMF FINALIST!!!

    • pmf2015

      Congratulations!

    • David

      I’m also in!

      Now need to find out more info about job fair. Hopefully it’s further back than the 14-15 rumor.

      Congrats to everyone else.

      • Victoria

        Awesome….part of me is still nervous…I need to see my name on the list..to be sure.

      • IndianaHopeful

        I made it as well. I’ll see everyone in DC for the Job Fair.

    • pickmepickme

      I’M IN TOO!!!!!! *jumps up and down*

      • Victoria

        Whoop Whoop! Lol….OPM just put out the list for God’s sake!

        • pickmepickme

          Amen. And congrats to everyone!

    • PmfAp

      Congrats. I made it too!!

    • CTpmf

      I made it too!! I scared all my office-mates by jumping up and screaming!

  • Victoria

    I have butterflies…what if that is the generic message prior to uploading the final listing? I need to see the 2015 PMF List….UGGGHHHHH!

  • Victoria

    The List is up….it’s official……..Yay to everyone that made it!!!

  • Lee

    Well I didn’t make it… Congrats to all who did.

    • boooo

      Me neither! Cheers! 😉
      Seriously, congrats everyone!

      • PMF

        You have a leg up for next year – don’t give up!

  • Briar Dunn

    YAYAYAYAYA I MADE IT TOO!!!!

    • pickmepickme

      Congrats!

  • Alaska

    I’m IN!!!!!!!!

  • AMR

    I MADE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • GovloopSteve

    Steve from GovLoop.

    Couple quick tips for finalists (and non-finalists)

    -Finalists – make sure you download/take a look at the guide again as we have a whole section on the job fair
    -Non-finalists – don’t worry there’s plenty of other ways to get into gov’t (myself came through a DHS program not PMF) – check out our other guides like broader Gov’t Jobs career guide, Internship/fellow guides here – http://pathtopmf.com/pmf-guide/

    • IndianaHopeful

      Hey Steve, I just wanted to thank you guys for your hard work. I think it’s safe to say I wouldn’t have been as successful throughout this application process without your guides. For the sake of future applicants, please keep up the good work.

  • PMF

    OK so for those that made it, the TAS is not up for us yet, right? At least, I haven’t been able to access it.

    • IndianaHopeful

      It’s up. 1) Sign in. 2) At home screen (Program status), look at the bottom. 3) Should be a link that says “Search Opportunities”

      • PMF

        Thanks! Wow, only 12 positions posted.

        • IndianaHopeful

          Well it is only day 1 🙂 I imagine the closer we are to the job fair in each direction, the more jobs will be posted. Nevertheless, I’m not waiting. Going to go ahead and email my introduction and resume to the agencies at the top of my list and see where it takes me.

          • Johnny Bravo

            Best wishes to you !! are you in the Indy area?

          • IndianaHopeful

            Best to you as well. I am actually in So. Indiana, just north of Louisville. But I have spent significant time throughout the state for my past job, including Indy.

  • Victoria

    To everyone that didn’t make it….try again! Please review this motivational video; it helps me every time I am unable to reach a certain goal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhzNSPiqO0M&list=PLo11GqG51irQfIrDuGJQT_uhqPPOa8g36&index=100

    • hopeful2015

      Thanks….Didn’t make it which bummed me out but I have one more chance so I’ll try again….wish I knew where I went wrong though…anyway wasn’t meant to be this time…Congratulations to all that made it!!!!

      • Kaitlyn, PMF

        If it helps, this was my second time trying and I made it this time. I was a semi-finalist last year too. You can do it!

        • hopeful2015

          Thanks guys. I have nothing to lose so I’ll apply again. At least I’ll know what to expect with the process. I’m definitely encouraged by those who are second-time candidates that made it! All the best to you all!

      • AMR

        Definitely don’t be discouraged. I didn’t even make it to semi-finals last year but made it all the way this time. You will make it next year!!

  • pmfs

    I made it!! When is the job fair though??? I would like to book flights asap. I am locked out of the pmf site for now since I forgot my password…

  • Btwovegas
    • Johnny Bravo

      I concur and I wish the best to all that applied!!!

  • chance2

    I made it!! 2nd time was the charm! I wish they had a list of placements for the previous class that stated WHERE they took the positions. I am not looking to move to DC but hoping since I am in Atlanta, there will be some good opportunities.

    • Btwovegas

      There are field offices and even a regional center in Atlanta for numerous agencies. Just make sure you reach out and ask the PMF coordinator for the agencies your interested in to inquire.

      • chance2

        Thanks! I will start doing that!

        • leslie

          Chance2 – you said second time’s a charm? did you get to the semi finalist stage last time?

          • chance2

            I did. in the 2012-2013 class i was a semifinalist. This was my last chance to apply and I made it all the way!

          • leslie

            That is so great to hear! I didn’t make it this time. And hearing that you got as far as I did before and made it all the way this time give me a little bit of hope. Do you have any advice in terms of doing it again?

          • chance2

            No advice, you are better prepared than a lot of folks having have gone through it once. i think with less nerves i did better this time, but its hard to tell since you get no feedback.

    • Kaitlyn, PMF

      This was my second time too and I made it this time! I was a semi-finalist for the 2014 class last year. Congrats!

      • chance2

        awesome! congrats to you too!! idk, it felt much more low pressure this time for me for some reason!

  • CMB

    Only 1 job listed for 92 STEM 2015 finalists?

    • Rachel

      yeah. what the heck?!?

    • Alaska

      From what I saw looking at it last year (on USA Jobs) there will be more jobs posted. It is only announcement day. Give it a little time.

      • CMB

        Thanks for the positive comment; we will remain hopeful!

  • pmfs

    Where do you log in to TAS? I have been locked out of the PMF site…..ugh.

  • pmfs

    Would anyone mind sharing when the job fair is?

    • IndianaHopeful

      They haven’t announced the date yet. I believe we will be getting an email soon regarding the job fair and/or webinar information.

  • newpmf

    Congrats to all who made it!! Someone should make a facebook group so we can network, and share DC/PMF tips and information!

    • PMFnow

      Good idea. I just requested to join the PMF Central YahooGroup and was denied for some reason?

      • Johhny Bravo

        I did the same thing through linkedin and was also denied. We aren’t PMFs officially until we start a job. Until then we are not the cool kids lol…

        • chance2

          Yeah, PMFs are those who get a job. We are just finalists. so still not all the way there yet!

  • The Field Mice

    Hooray I made it. I’m looking for a bit of advice now. I was poised to begin a part-time GS-4 position on April 6 but now I’m a little unsure what to do? Should I begin that position and just be open that I will likely be leaving for a better position via the pmf soon. Or just not begin at all and focus on the pmf positon. I would love to work for this agency and this location (Denver, CO), but most importantly i want a more challenging position than what this GS-4 is likely to offer. Any advice?

    • CTpmf

      I would say take it for now and then switch to the PMF position later. It will take at least a few months to find and start a PMF position. And, on the off chance you don’t secure a PMF position, at least you are in the system with this position.

  • Guest

    Hi Everyone! Someone mentioned below that it would be helpful to set up a facebook group so we can network etc. I’m more than happy to set this up, but can someone look me up and friend me on fb?- You can’t create a group without adding at least one person right away..

    • Ebele

      Many Laurel Hills on FB. I could not tell the right person. Also there is a Linkedin group for PMF 2015. Everyone should join as well.

      • Darnold Falmer

        Can’t find this group. Is PMF 2015 the title?

        • Ebele

          its called
          Presidential Management Fellowship, Class of 2015

  • Melissa

    Is anyone else having a hard time figuring out how to log-in to the PMF TAS? I keep getting the rotational opportunities for 2014 PMFs.

    • Ebele

      How do you get rotational opportunities without going into TAS?

  • Ebele

    Hello guys, please join the “Presidential Management Fellows Program -2015 Finalists” group on facebook as well as the “Presidential Management Finalist, Class of 2015” on Linkedin. I have heard from past fellows that their peers used these platforms to advertise jobs not posted online.

    • David

      can’t find the facebook group

  • Ebele

    Presidential Management Fellows Program -2015 finalists
    David copy and paste the above. You should find it.

    • David

      It’s not coming up when I search groups.

      • Ebele

        Hmmmm, do you want to send me your facebook name so I can add you? You may send it to ebby5102@gmail.com

  • pmf_me

    Im going through a dilemma, i just got offered a federal position @GS 9 level, to my suprise i was told it goes into 11 the following year and a 12 the year after that. So what the difference between this and a pmf position. Secondly, can i take this job now and when i get a PMF offer later down the line tender my resignation on this federal job. I still prefer PMF. The agency i got the offer from is not my top pick to work with long term.

    • GAU

      That’s most likely the exact same situation you would get through PMF, without the PMF name attached. Some PMF positions may extend to 13. You could start and hold out for another, that’s entirely up to you, but I would be inclined to take the sure thing rather than hold on for a maybe.

  • Jack

    Greetings, all. Am I the only one that happens to check this website for announcement? I understand that we will probably get an email giving us the details of the In-Person Job Fair, however it has been almost two months since they announced the Finalists and we have no word yet. Most PMFs that I have spoken to had their Job Fair within six weeks of the announcement. However we have yet to even hear the date and location seven weeks later.

    Anyone else curious if it will end up actually happening?

  • Miles Bennett Dyson

    Any current PMFs on here who were Federal Employees at the time of their appointment? If so, were any of you able to be selected for an appointment with your agency in the same geographic location?

  • Steve

    For folks who participated in 2014-15 applications and looking to apply for 2016 season, just a heads-up we updated the guide and 2015 -2016 PMF application thread is at

    http://pathtopmf.com/2016-pmf-open-thread/